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Building trust after YOUR SPOUSE BETRAYED YOU!


In Episode 030 of the Naked Proverbs podcast, Rich and Nik Scott discuss how married couple can build trust after their spouse betrays them.



Nik:

Welcome back to the Naked Proverbs podcast where we unclothe the truth about Black love family and marriage. My name is Nik Scott, I'm one of your hosts, and I'm here with my husband,

Rich:

What's going on it's your boy Rich. And today we're going to talk about building trust after betrayal.

Nik:

Right at the start of every episode, we always remind our listeners that we are not trained, licensed or professional therapists or counselors. We've been married quite a while. 18 years and six months to be exact. And we use Naked Proverbs as our platform to share our advice, our experience our stories and our opinions.

Nik:

If you haven't already, make sure that you're following the Naked Proverbs on whatever podcasting platform you listen on. And if you like what you hear Make sure that you show us your love and support by giving us a five-star rating on iTunes or wherever you are listening right now.

Rich:

I would love to take a moment and say thank you to our listeners. We truly appreciate you tuning in week after week and sharing your time with us. Thank you.

Rich:

Girl. there ain't no eggs, there ain't no milk, there ain't no nothing. All because of something called Coronavirus.

Nik:

Everybody all over the world. This just isn't something that's affecting the United States. We are in crisis mode because of this new quote unquote, new disease, virus. microbe out there called Corona.

Rich:

It's crazy, right? I mean, you see movies I've read books. I've watched videos that talk about when the apocalypse happens, or when the zombies attack. You know, they've got shows about preppers and all these things, right?

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

But honestly, I never thought I'd really get to experience it.

Nik:

I know and you are so excited about it.

Rich:

I am. Because I'm like, man, I got everything I need. What?

Nik:

He is so excited about it, y'all. Like, so we woke up a couple days ago. And he's like, we need to go stock up on stuff, right? I'm the kind of person that goes to the grocery store every day

Rich:

Every single day. Y'all. Every single day.

Nik:

Yeah, because I don't know what I'm going to want to cook for dinner. So, I make sure that go to the grocery store. We keep the essentials on hand all the time. Yeah, so we always have like almond milk

Rich:

and toilet paper. We've had toilet paper.

Nik:

I mean, yes. That's the one thing I do stock up on is cleaning supplies and paper towels and toilet paper.

Rich:

Well, hold on, though, because I don't want people to think that we're hoarders. Like we're just buying up everything.

Nik:

No. We don't.

Rich:

So, we always been people that shop at Sam's or Costco, you know, your big, big brand stores and your warehouse stores. Yes, thank you. And unfortunately, they don't sell small sizes of anything. So, we've always bought our toilet paper there. And it's like, what 36 rolls or something crazy and there's only four of us. So, when I say that we have some things it's not because like we're those people that went out and bought all the toilet paper. So that's why you don't have that, that wasn't us.

Nik:

We didn't do that. We make sure that we have our portion, our fair share of toilet paper on hand at all times and we've never run out. And so those types of things I do always keep stocked and on hand. So, Windex and 409.

Rich:

Clorox wipes. I literally just said the other day. Why do we have four containers of Clorox wipes? And Nik was like, well, I just went to the store and if you go to Sam's or Costco or to the warehouse stores, that's how they come they come in a big box of four. So, once again, it wasn't because we were hoarding

Nik:

No.

Rich:

it was just that that's our normal purchase.

Nik:

Right.

Rich:

So, that's what we have four.

Nik:

Yeah, we had just run out like we were on our last little tub of Clorox wipes. So, when I was at the store, I picked up a replacement six pack.

Rich:

And now you can't find a one pack.

Nik:

Isn't it crazy?

Rich:

Anywhere, it is crazy.

Nik:

I have so many thoughts and opinions and feelings about all of this and I know this type of thing excites you. But for me, it's almost like I'm looking at it from a much more critical standpoint like really? Why toilet paper?

Rich:

I still don't understand why people bought up all the toilet paper like I was totally confused when I'm watching the news, when I'm watching social media. So, I'm like well does Coronavirus give you the runs? So, people think they're gonna run out of toilet paper from being in the bathroom all day? And then you read and it's like, well, no it doesn't. That's not what it causes, it's like flu symptoms.

Nik:

Yeah.

Rich:

So, I don't understand the whole point about toilet paper.

Nik:

Like not lotion, not deodorant, not

Rich:

not food.

Nik:

You know, there is a, I mean,

Rich:

There's a shortage of food now, but I mean, even a week ago when this kind of started, there was a run on toilet paper, y'all. Not a run on the banks to get your money out. Not a run on

Nik:

dog food,

Rich:

dog food or Snapple. It was a run on toilet paper.

Nik:

Snapple? Do they still make Snapple?

Rich:

I don't know. They should. It was good.

Nik:

Well, we don't. And that's something we don't

Rich:

I couldn't tell you because I don't drink it.

Nik:

We don't drink Snapple. So, we found ourselves at the big warehouse stores and the grocery stores buying things y'all that we do not normally buy. Because a lot of the things when you want to stock up in a prepper period or in the apocalypse or whatever, it has to be things that you can freeze or nonperishable. So, for

Rich:

I bought half a elk.

Nik:

Oh gosh, I think that's what he's most excited about.

Rich:

I'm not gonna lie to you I have half an elk in my deep freezer, and I'm so excited about it. I'm gonna have elk steaks tonight.

Nik:

He's like crazy, excited about it. I walk back in the house. It's almost like every time we leave the house; he wants to go to the grocery store because he just thinks something else. And he's like, we should get s'mores stuff because the girls are going to be in the house for at least two weeks and they're going to get bored and he literally woke up yesterday, woke me up yesterday. Talking about nobody's leaving this house ever again. And I'm like

Rich:

Yeah, I don't want y'all to bring Coronavirus back to me. I'm healthy. I don't want to Coronavirus y'all keep that, look if y'all want to go hang out with your friends and go out in them screets and get some Coronavirus, you keep that with you. I don't want none of that.

Nik:

I don't think the actual virus is as bad as people are making it sound.

Rich:

Well, I got half an elk in my deep freezer. So, if it is, because I'm hearing, words on the streets, is that in the next 24 hours, we could be on lockdown martial law.

Nik:

That's true.

Rich:

So, to me, in this situation, it's not about building bunkers in your backyard and having, you know, a mini Costco down in your basement, but it is about being prepared in the worst case scenario. Now everything that we purchased, we use on a regular basis, I would say 98% of the things. Maybe 85? So, if for some wild reason, you know life just continues like it should normally, and everybody's going back to work and school and life. It's not like these things are just going to go to waste.

Nik:

That's true, but I, I wish that there were better ways to stock up and prep for a disaster or catastrophe where we didn't have to eat so much stuff that we don't normally that's my whole thing. Like, how can we continue to have our semi healthy, semi clean

Rich:

Have a garden in the backyard.

Nik:

Who's gonna garden?

Rich:

Well, that's my point, though. I mean, like you like fresh herbs and spices of the tree. So, the only way you're going to get that in a situation like we currently are in, because it, like I said, tomorrow you could not be able to go to the store. So, if that were the situation you in your normal way of doing things, we wouldn't have no groceries. We'd be sitting here hungry.

Rich:

That's true.

Rich:

Well, not me. I mean we gone break out some MREs and some just add water food.

Nik:

Our kids wouldn't eat MREs.

Rich:

Well, hey.

Nik:

They would be hungry before they ate

Rich:

Day four they would. By day four or five they will be like, Daddy let me get that. What you got? Tortellini? Let me get one of those.

Nik:

Wait a minute what is the MRE because not everybody knows. I only know what MREs are because my dad was in the military. He was in the army and we kept MREs in our house and we did, we truly did used to eat MREs when I was little.

Rich:

So, an MRE is a meal ready to eat. That literally comes in a bag and it's freeze dried food it's just add water. It's food that supposedly can last like years.

Nik:

It'll last longer than the roaches will at the end of the world.

Rich:

Yeah. And they're served to us in the military on a regular basis. So, I have a few boxes of them, you know, so, I'm ready You know, I'm like look, let the hit the fan. Girl I got enough stuff. I'm good. We safe. And don't come knock on my door because I'm safe. You'd be in trouble.

You're listening to the Naked Proverbs podcast with Rich and Nik Scott. If you like what you're hearing, show your support by becoming a patron. All of our patrons receive exclusive benefits like behind the scenes content, access to bonus audio, and Naked Proverbs merchandise. To learn more and to become a patron. Visit the Naked Proverbs Patreon page at www.patreon.com/nakedproverbs

Rich:

Reality is in any marriage there is going to be a time where your trust is going to be broken. There may be that active quote unquote betrayal and I think a lot of people focus on the act of infidelity, but there are other ways that you can break trust in a marriage.

Nik:

First of all, before we even get into ways that you can break trust in marriage and how you can start to rebuild trust in marriage, I think that it's important for us to put out there that one of the top three pillars in marriage, in my opinion, is trust. Communication, being a second one and of course I always, always, always talked about

Rich:

Sex.

Nik:

Well, I was going to say connection,

Rich:

Oh.

Nik:

I mean, sex is a way to connect

Rich:

because the wood is good.

Nik:

Are we still talking about the wood being good?

Rich:

That was the best I ever heard, that pastor, he's good guy.

Nik:

But yeah, those to me, those are the top three pillars in marriage. So, when the trust is broken, you have to think about it like a three legged stool, right? So, if one of those legs are broken on that stool, what's gonna happen when you go to sit on that stool? So, trust is very, very, very important.

Rich:

And even if that leg isn't totally broken off, think about the barstool you sit on, that's always wobbling, right? And that's what happens when any of these are out of balance.

Nik:

So, I guess emotional cheating can be described or explained where your spouse is relying on someone else, usually of opposite sex to, to support, to confide in, to, they're trusting them with emotional needs that your spouse should be handling.

Rich:

So, what does that look like?

Rich:

Let's talk about some of the ways that you can be betrayed in your marriage.

Nik:

Outside of infidelity. I mean, let's just go on and get that out the way infidelity is a big betrayal in marriage.

Nik:

Emotional cheating is another one that people commonly recognize.

Rich:

I like that. I mean, well, I would say like, I agree with that. And when I think of emotional cheating, I think of, like you said, your spouse is sharing those intimate emotional feelings and thoughts and things that are going on with them or in their life or even in your marriage with someone else, that's not their spouse. So, they are connecting emotionally with someone that they probably shouldn't be connecting with.

Rich:

Okay.

Nik:

Right. And so, when I was giving my description, I was trying to think of an example of what that might look like, but I couldn't.

Rich:

Oh. Man, this is on all the TV shows. So, I would say that would be, you and I are having some kind of discord here at home.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

And you go off to work and you're sharing it with your boss. And he's all like, oh, that is so horrible. Nik oh, let's go to dinner and let's talk about it. Because he or she is seeing that as an opportunity to get behind the veil. Right. And you initially, sometimes when an emotional cheating happens, it's not something that you realize you're even doing. You just found someone that will listen to you. But it can lead to infidelity, it can lead to you losing interest in your own spouse. So, that's why, to me, it's one of the more dangerous things that can happen because it's so innocent to begin with.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Nik:

And I also think that it's kind of hard to recognize because it is having just a casual conversation about whatever it, or that's one example of emotional cheating is just having a casual conversation about your day or issues and it might not even be about an issue. You're just literally having a casual conversation about your life, and then someone else might see, I think it's the intention behind it. That makes it an emotional cheating situation, not necessarily the conversation. So, that, again is just another very common betrayal that happens in marriage that people recognize. But other not so common ways that you can feel betrayed or that you can betray your spouse in marriage is not standing up for your spouse in situations we've had conversations before where it's like, one spouse can just feel alone in a situation or in public or, or whatever the case may be, and that spouse might end up feeling betrayed because of the lack of defense that a husband or wife might not show for their spouse. Straight up lying, even about little stuff.

Rich:

I mean, look what they say if you ain't telling the truth, you tell a lie. There is no in between. Either you're telling the truth or you're telling a lie, even if you're telling a partial truth. That's a lie. When you are doing it because you don't want the whole story to be told, or you don't want everything to be revealed, that's a lie. And that doesn't build trust, if anything is going to have you questioning your spouse.

Nik:

Yeah, I remember in high school my cheer coach always used to say that lying happens by omission. And by commission. So, those are, you're right, it's not always that flat out, I'm telling a lie. It could be just omitting certain details and just not telling the whole truth. So, that is definitely a form of betrayal in marriage.

Nik:

Using your spouse's traumas and vulnerabilities against them. I think that when you're married, you should be vulnerable with your spouse, you should be able to share things with your spouse, you should be able to confide in your spouse but when your spouse turns around and throws it in your face or uses it against you, that can lead to

Rich:

a lack of trust.

Nik:

Exactly.

Rich:

How can you be vulnerable when you're like, well, last time I was vulnerable, he took that and threw it in my face when we were having an argument? Or he brought that up in a group of people that I didn't even want that to, want them to know that about me. And it's like, I've let down my guard, and I've shared something with you. And now you've used that against me. That's definitely gonna make somebody feel like they've been betrayed.

Nik:

Absolutely. Financial cheating.

Rich:

Oh, yeah.

Nik:

I mean, we had a whole episode about finances. What, two or three weeks ago?

Rich:

Yeah.

Nik:

And as you all know what financial cheating is

Rich:

You ain't got no finances.

Nik:

That's not what I was going to say. I was gonna say Google it.

Rich:

Google me.

Nik:

Talking bad about your spouse to others. I think it is commonplace for women and men to get around groups of women and men and start to have these rant sessions about their husbands and, or their wives. And that's not cool. Like, that is not cool. Because how would it make your spouse feel if and when it gets back to them, that your spouse is just bashing you, with other people or talking about all of your flaws to other people, you know, it's easy and it's easy to get caught up in it right? You can be around a group of husbands or wives and then somebody's like, man, you know, my husband came home, or he got on my nerves for such and such and such a thing. And then you'd be like, girl, I totally understand. And it's so easy to do. Like, it's kind of like that emotional cheating thing where it can just be a casual conversation, right? But then it can turn into something that's not so casual and innocent.

Rich:

And so those are quite a few different ways. They're not the only ways, but there are quite a few different ways where you can have betrayal in your marriage where you can break that circle of trust, right? So, our topic today is how do you build that back? Right? How do you build trust after these things have happened? I would say honestly, take everything that we said, breaks down trust, and realize if you do the opposite of that. So, instead of going out and talking to someone else, when you having emotional issues or you know, creating that emotional connection with someone else, create that emotional connection with your spouse, so that you don't even have that opportunity to feel like we're not connected.

Rich:

Earlier you mentioned not having your spouse's back, right. I have a friend who some things went down. And he addressed the situation and was like, listen, that ain't gonna work. You can talk about a lot of people, you can, but when it comes to my wife, man, we can meet at the flagpole. And he's grown-grown right? But what it did, and this wasn't his intention, but what it did in his marriage was strengthen even more his relationship with his wife. Because his wife had said on more than one occasion, I had no clue that he loved me that much. I had no clue that he would stand up against this group of people, for me like this. And so, to me, if trust has been broken, or if it's kind of on a, you know, a teeter totter, and it could be broken, you do the very opposite of some of these things we've said, and you can begin to build your trust back.

Nik:

Absolutely. I think the number one thing that if you are the person who did the betraying that you acknowledge it, and you own up to it. It's not always as cut and dry as infidelity and I think that's, that's the one that people so easily grasp onto because it is it's one of those tangible things that people can hold on to. But when it's not like that, and if your spouse is feeling betrayed in one of these other more subtle ways or not so recognizable ways or not so tangible ways, it's so very important that if you're doing the betraying, that you would acknowledge it, and own up to it.

Rich:

But on the flip side of that, if you're the one that has been betrayed, or you feel that you've been betrayed, you have to address it.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

You can't just have this elephant in the room, and just keep sweeping it under the rug, like, oh, they didn't know they did that. Or, oh, you know, I don't want to turn to an argument and just avoid it. Like you can't avoid these types of things in your marriage. Because when betrayal happens at any of these levels, it is putting you back on that three legged stool where you're missing a piece of that one of those legs. So, your, your whole marriage is wobbling, when it should be steady, and it should be grounded and instead of that now, you've put yourself in a situation where that's not the case. So, to me, it's also important that you actually address that elephant in the room, you know, because there's the possibility that your spouse doesn't even know they've done something to betray you.

Nik:

And that's, that's real talk.

Rich:

So, if you're not communicating about it, hey, you know, what, sweetheart, can we sit down for a minute, you know, the other night?

Rich:

Because after this, this is a real story. This happened. We were at a friend's house, and we were all clowning and joking.

Nik:

Oh, are you about to tell that story about the Founders?

Rich:

Yeah. And I was just joking, right? Because I mean everybody's going in on an organization, whatever. And so, I made some jokes. And I saw that my wife's whole demeanor changed. And I probably kept going because as you know,

Nik:

you ain't got no quitting sense.

Rich:

I lack some maturity in some ways in my life. So, anyway, when we got in the car, she brought it to my attention. Like, you know what, that wasn't cool. And I'm sitting there like, what wasn't cool, everybody laughing and joking what are you talking about?

Rich:

But it wasn't so much what I said, but it was I didn't have her back. And the things I was saying it wasn't they weren't true or they, but they weren't cool. And she was offended. And if she hadn't said anything to me, I wouldn't have known. So, that's why I think it's important that if you do feel betrayed or you do feel like you know something is going on it ruffles your feathers, you have to speak up because you can't assume that your spouse just knows just because

Nik:

I think that is a really good example. Because we were at a friend's house and we were chilling, you know, drinking wine, eating lil bar food, snacks on the patio, like really, really having a good time. And at one point, I don't even know how the conversation, I just felt attacked, and everybody was attacking. And it wasn't me that they were attacking. But it felt like they were attacking me. And then he kind of jumped on with them. I am not the kind of person who doesn't really hide what's going on really well, like I really try to be that chameleon where I can just be like, okay, I'm cool. But I'm not good at that. It was clear that I was starting to get annoyed because then they started making comments about like, dang Nik, because I was snapping. And then I really snapped at him because I'm like, okay, these people are attacking. Now you're going to attack too? So, I think this was a great example, because I did feel abandoned and alone and I guess, betrayed.

Rich:

I mean, I think that people use the word betrayal, and they always assume it's this head chopped off. You told the king, but reality is betrayal can be at a small level as well. Like just something as simple as what we're talking about. This conversation and then you know you felt on this island. And to me when you're in a marriage, you should never feel on an island. You should never feel like everybody, including my spouse is going in on me. And I'm all alone.

Nik:

Even if it was a joke,

Rich:

like it doesn’t, like it doesn't matter,

Nik:

because it wasn't, like I clearly was not laughing.

Rich:

Yeah, she wasn't laughing y'all. She was mad. But we cool now.

Nik:

Yeah, so but yeah, that was a great example.

Rich:

We were able to rebuild trust after betrayal. So, you guys, you should really pay attention to what we're saying. Because we're good at what we're doing.

Nik:

Well, you know, we have had lots of bumps in the road to get to this place too, because there was a time let's be clear, where something like that would have happened and I would not have felt comfortable or safe enough to have a conversation with you like that.

Rich:

That's true,

Nik:

and nor would you have been in a place to receive it

Rich:

to receive it. Exactly. You know, I would have got defensive or just blew it off or not heard her. And those are things as well when you're talking about building trust. You can't do it. You can't be defensive. When your spouse comes and says, hey, this happened, and I felt this way. Or you know what you did this, and it made me feel this way. You can't just blow it off. You can't ignore it. You can't get defensive like, Well, that wasn't my intention. Because you know what? I can say this like, that was not my intention, when we were hanging out was going to injure my wife in any kind of way. But I had a commander that once told me something, and it stuck with me and he was a horrible commander, y'all. Anyway. He said, impact versus intent. So, it doesn't matter what your intentions were, you have to think about the impact it had. So, it doesn't matter that my intentions were not to injure my wife, my intentions were just to keep the party going and keep laughing having a good time. But instead, the impact that was given was that my wife felt abandoned and betrayed and, on an island, and hurt. So, I couldn't just ignore that. I had to accept that you know what, I had a part in that and I'm saying sorry, and I won't ever let that happen again. Because you know what? I don't want us to be on a three legged stool that's falling apart.

Nik:

No, I mean it ain't gonna hold us up.

Rich:

Right. And then you know what I think you have to be open and honest about your feelings. Because sometimes when betrayal happens, the person has been betrayed. They want to act like they're taking the high road. And I say act like because we all know that when trust is broken, we feel some emotions. Whether it be I just want to scream, I want to pull my hair out. I want to walk away from you, whatever it is. So, you can't act like you don't have any emotions. And it's okay to have emotions. Because you've been betrayed. Because your heart is broken based off of someone else's behaviors. And it's okay for you to have emotions. And I think that you can't really have forgiveness and move forward and rebuild trust. If you don't go through these stages. It's almost like when someone is grieving and people try to force you to do to from, you know, you have loss, and they just want you to get to the end and be happy.

Nik:

Yeah.

Rich:

You have to go through those middle stages to truly at the end, have healing.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

And in this situation and when you're talking about betrayal of trust, you have to go through all those stages, and you have to know that there's gonna be some emotion. And the person that did the betraying, you have to understand that their emotions may be on a roller coaster.

Nik:

And it ain't on your timeline.

Rich:

Nope.

Nik:

It is not on your timeline. You can't sit there and be like, well, it's been six months and you still mad? How long does it take for me to heal? Who is the dictator of that? Who is the one who's going to put a timeline on, okay, this was done to me? And now I'm all of a sudden just like, what what's the timeline look like?

Nik:

But on the flip side of that, I would also say that the person who has been betrayed you cannot hold a grudge. Okay because there is a difference between holding a grudge and going through a healing or like you described a grieving process. Because some people are just good at holding grudges and they will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever forget.

Rich:

Forever ever?

Nik:

Ever, ever.

Rich:

Never, ever.

Nik:

Never, ever will they forget, nor will they forgive because they feel like this was done to me and it was so bad, and I can't ever trust you again. I don't like you because of it and I'm just going to hold a grudge and be mad forever. Like if you truly are trying to mend the leg on that three legged stool, then that's what you have to do. You have to work towards mending it and not keeping it broken.

Rich:

And if you are in a situation where you just cannot get past it, you cannot forgive, you cannot move forward there's nothing wrong with getting Some professional counseling, you know, go out and get some marriage counseling, get some help from someone that can help you learn some ways, some techniques, some strategies to move your marriage forward. Because remember, if your goal is to have a happy, productive marriage, and you understand that there are going to be some things that happened in it, you can't get stuck in those ruts, right? You can't get stuck in well, he said this to me, or she did this or they cheated, or they stole money or whatever the betrayal was. If you want your marriage to move forward, then you have to be willing to work through it. So, if you are the person who has been betrayed, and you feel like you just cannot work through it, then get some help.

Nik:

And I think the biggest thing, just to really put a cap on all of the tips on rebuilding trust after a betrayal is actions always speak louder than words. And I'm sorry, only carries so much weight if there's nothing real behind it. And let's be clear, doing the same betrayal over and over and over, over and over and over again, really? Like, how many times am I supposed to forgive? So, if you're really sincere about wanting to rebuild trust after a betrayal, your actions have to speak louder than your words.

Rich:

When you know that this person keeps stepping out on you. Or, you know, this person continuously lies to you. Or, you know, this person constantly breaks your trust, emotionally, or whatever it is, and it keeps happening and you keep getting this, I'm sorry, and you keep going around in circles, but at the end of the day, their behavior isn't changing, then you know what, they probably don't really want to change their behavior.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

And I believe that it's impossible to have a marriage without trust. So, if you have someone that's constantly breaking that trust, and not working to mend it, not working to bring you guys back to that stable zone, then it may be that this is not the right person for you. You know, and I will tell anybody I do not believe in divorce. I work hard with those that I counsel to help them find a way to keep their marriage going, if possible. But at the end of the day, if you have someone that is not willing to do their part, then you do have to address that and figure out what does your future look like with or without them.

Nik:

Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of the Naked Proverbs podcast. We want you to truly have a happy marriage. We want you to continue to thrive in your marriages and indulge in your spouses on a regular basis. Don't forget to follow the Naked Proverbs on whatever podcasting platform you listen on. And we will talk to y'all in the next one.

Rich:

Peace.

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