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I DON'T TRUST YOU!


In Episode 019 of the Naked Proverbs podcast, Rich and Nik Scott discuss trust issues in marriage.


Nik:

Welcome back to the Naked Proverbs podcast where we unclothe the truth about Black love family and marriage. My name is Nik Scott, one of your hosts, and I'm here with my husband,

Rich:

What's going on? It's your boy Rich. And today we're talking about trust.

Nik:

Right at the start of every episode, we always remind our listeners that we are not trained, licensed or professional therapists or counselors. We've been married a very long time and Naked Proverbs is our platform to share our stories, our opinions, our advice, and of course, our experiences. If you haven't already, make sure that you're following Naked Proverbs on whatever podcasting platform you are listening on. And if you like what you hear, show us your love and support by giving us a five-star rating on iTunes or wherever you're listening right now.

Rich:

And as always, we want to say thank you to our listeners, you have chosen to tune in on the last episode of this decade, as well as the last episode of the year. Thank you for tuning in once again. Cornrows, locs, Afro puffs, natural hair, twist out, burn out,

Nik:

Burn out?

Rich:

I don't know. I'm just making up hairstyles, braids. These are all styles that Black men and women have worn through the ages. And, unfortunately, those hairstyles have caused people to lose their jobs in America

Nik:

Or not get the job in the first place.

Rich:

Yep. Yep. So, I was reading an article as I always do, you know, it's a great way to learn. Because whatever is on the internet has to be the truth.

Nik:

It's all true.

Rich:

But I was reading that in Florida air work. To pass what's called the crown at C-R-O-W-N, like Crown Royal, but it's the crown act. And it is all about ensuring that men and women of color can wear their hair as they see fit, and not be discriminated against in the workplace. While, I think that that is great in many ways. It also is one of those things where it's like, wow, we actually have to have a law that allows Black people to wear their hair naturally, or in styles that are pretty predominantly found in our culture.

Nik:

First of all, Florida is not the first state to do this. I believe California was the first state to do this. I don't know if it was earlier this year or last year. And recently a lot of other states have followed suit New York, I believe New Jersey, most recently, Florida. And the crown act it's actually an acronym, and it stands for creating a respectful and open workplace. And I do agree that it's mind blowing that we have to pass laws that, quote, unquote, protect us as Black people from wearing our hair in our traditional styles, or let's be clear in the way that it grows out of our scalp is deemed unprofessional a lot of times. I think that's crazy. But I also feel like, is it something that's really going to help us or is it something that's ultimately going to hurt us?

Rich:

I think it's like so many other things. There are laws that are created to hopefully bring equality, but they ultimately bring more separation. Because here's the reality. If I'm a business owner and one of those states that you mentioned, and someone comes in and they want to get a job, and they have, let's go with locs. And I don't want to hire them. I'm not gonna hire them. I'm never gonna sit there and tell them, I didn't hire you because you have locs. I'm going to find a justifiable reason. We had a better candidate, you didn't meet the qualifications we were looking for, you weren't a good fit. And guess what, those things aren't protected. So, you didn't get the job. And it is what it is. So, it's great that we have these acts that are created, but unfortunately, does it really change anything? Honestly?

Nik:

I don't think so. I think it makes it harder because what about the woman who had the locs and went up to the Supreme Court or whatever, and she ultimately losing because the company said something about her conditional job offer was contingent on whether or not she cut her locs off and obviously, I don't think anybody should cut their hair or change their hair to accept a job. And she ultimately didn't. And then they took their offer back. Well, in that particular situation, the company gave her a conditional offer, right? Now, companies aren't even going to give us a conditional offer. They're just not going to give us an offer at all, because of our hair. So, if they don't like your locs, and they don't like your afros, they don't like your braids, or they don't like whatever hairstyle it is that you're choosing to wear to your job interview or to work. Now, you're not even getting the opportunity at all because like you said, they're coming up with whatever other reason, that's not protected. To say this is why we didn't offer you the job.

Rich:

And I think that's the big thing in our community that we have to realize is if they don't want you, they don't want you. If they don't like you, they don't like you. There is not a right hairstyle, a right way to wear your pants, a right color to wear at the end of the day, if someone It doesn't like you, they don't like you. If someone doesn't want to work with you, they don't want to work with you. So, it's important to me that we as a community learn to work together. That we figure out ways that we can support one another. And we can build our own.

Nik:

Period.

Rich:

So, instead of always going to the others that don't want us, haven't wanted us since slavery,

Nik:

Never wanted us.

Rich:

They only wanted us they could be lazy, let's be real. But they haven't wanted us since we were freed, emancipated. Because technically we weren't freed. We were emancipated, there's a difference,

Nik:

And we're still not free.

Rich:

So, they didn't want us then. But now we all believe, well, if you just straighten your hair, then it'll be okay. Well, if you don't wear that bow tie, because that's just too intimidating. How the hell is a bow tie intimidating? Well, because the Nation of Islam wore bow ties. Okay? And so, does the geeky guy with classes, but it's like every little thing we're told to change and to be more conforming, and I just think we need to reach the point of understanding that we will never conform enough because the color of our skin is not theirs. So, therefore we will never be accepted or fit in like we want to believe we will. And it's time for us to just power up, move out and do our own thing. Power to the People. Black is beautiful.

Nik:

Yes, it is.

You're listening to the Naked Proverbs podcast with Rich and Nik Scott. If you like what you're hearing, show your support by becoming a patron. All of our patrons receive exclusive benefits, like behind the scenes content, access to bonus audio, and Naked Proverbs merchandise. To learn more and to become a patron. Visit the Naked Proverbs Patreon page at www.patreon.com/nakedproverbs

Rich:

Can you even really be married if you don't trust your spouse?

Nik:

No, but there's lots of people that are married that don't trust each other.

Rich:

Then I could promise you their marriage is not thriving.

Nik:

I would agree with that.

Rich:

Their marriage is at a standstill, or it's even dying. Because the reality is when you have trust in a marriage, it is a place of safety. It is a place of honesty, of truth and transparency. So, if you are not trusting your spouse, and you're lacking any of those words, then how can you really have a fulfilling marriage? How can you really say you're in love and you just wake up excited to spend your moments, every waking moment with this person that you don't even trust? You don't even believe that things are telling you, you don't even believe the actions they are doing are building your marriage or are healthy for you. So, for me, it's like you cannot have a great marriage if you don't have trust.

Nik:

And I do not disagree with that one bit. But I would also say that, just to add to that, a lot of people's behaviors in marriage, and especially when it comes to trust, it came from watching their parents in their relationship, and also experiences from their past relationships. So, they're bringing baggage, trust baggage, if you will, into their own marriages, and not necessarily recognizing what those actions are, that would cause mistrust, either with themselves or with their spouse.

Rich:

And I think that's a great point because a lot of times in relationships, people fall out of one and right into another.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

So, they never actually take the time to evaluate what went wrong. What was my part in it, what were some things I put up with that maybe I shouldn't have? And because they're just jumping into the next relationship, they actually don't have an opportunity to analyze and to do better the next time. So, they're bringing that, like you said, that same baggage that created the first issue, or the second issue, or the third issue into this second, third, fourth, fifth relationship.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

And they end up facing the same issues. And they still don't know how to address them or deal with them, because they themselves have never dealt with them.

Nik:

But if we're being honest, and completely transparent and naked up in here, people suck at self-accountability. Nobody wants to look at themselves in a relationship, a past relationship and say, I did this wrong, and I'm going to self-correct that. And when it comes to trust, because trust is one of those things that manifests itself as fear. Now, I've said this before, fear shows up in a lot of ways. And it shows up in so many ways people don't even know how to identify it. Like if you're sneaking through your spouse's stuff it's because you don't trust them. It's not because you're looking out for them or whatever reason and rationale you made up in your head, it's because you don't trust them. If you are constantly facetiming your spouse when a simple text or phone call, because you want to see where they are, are they where they said they gonna be? That is a lack of trust, not whatever other reason that you came up with in your head, to make yourself feel good. That's a lack of trust, and it's fear. Or even ear hustling at public gatherings. Like this is one thing that bothers me at a gathering. Like when you're in a place and usually the women will break off and do, you know, in one room and have a conversation and the men'll break off and have a conversation. We're sitting here talking, or y'all are sitting there talking, and one or the other be like, what you say huh, who, what, when, where, why? First of all, why are you all up over here in what the other party is talking about? It's because you don't trust them.

Rich:

That's good. I think we can wrap this up right here. I'm just playing.

Nik:

I know you got more to say.

Rich:

I mean, I think that is so true because you know, you hit on a lot of great points. And the reality is, is when you are fearful, you start to not trust because you don't know how to handle that fear. You don't know how to address that fear that's in your relationship, in yourself. And then when you start to not trust, you start having all these little demons, a little, you know, little devil on each arm, right? And you got the little devil saying, h, she must be out doing, oh, he must be doing. And instead of you actually trusting your spouse, you listen to that nonsense, which creates more issues and drama in your marriage. Because now your spouse, husband or wife, feels like I can't even go out with my friends without you questioning where I'm at. Or I can't even go to the grocery store without you wondering what else is going on? Like, instead of always jumping to the conclusion that something negative is happening, maybe they stopped to pick you up your favorite dessert. And that's what's taking a little bit longer. They just wanted to surprise you. But now on their way to pick it up, you blowin up they phone. You've been at the store for 10 minutes, what's going on, where you're at? I mean, it only takes three minutes to get there, two minutes to go aisle 7, and then another two minutes to get back. You should already be back, what's going on? And now they're like, you know, I don't want to buy this fool nothing. So, you start to hurt yourself and your opportunities to be blessed in your marriage, because you lack trust. And so, you really have to address that and figure out what is your button? What is that thing that's causing you to have mistrust? Is it because in the past your spouse gave you a reason to mistrust them? Or, is it because your girlfriend or boyfriend six people ago gave you reason to mistrust? Is it because your mom or your dad gave you reasons to mistrust? Like, and if it's those issues, deeper issues, then that's not your spouse's problem or issue. That's your issue that you need to go get some help and some counseling for and dig deeper and find out why. What is your why behind mistrusting your spouse?

Nik:

Now, there's two things that you said, one, if your spouse gave you a reason to not trust them. That's a whole different conversation. And that's a whole nother podcast. But if you're coming to the relationship with trust issues, figure out what that is. And building trust doesn't start with the other person. It starts with you. And I go back to that self-accountability, being able to hold yourself accountable because you said it at the beginning, that when you trust somebody, you feel safe with that person. How are you married to someone that you don't feel safe with?

Rich:

Right.

Nik:

That's a question that you need to answer yourself. Your spouse can't answer that question for you. You have to be able to answer that question and be honest with yourself. You have to be honest with yourself as to why you're not trusting that person, the behaviors that you're exhibiting and exerting, showing this person that you don't trust them. You have to check yourself before you wreck yourself because mistrusting your spouse is bad for your health. And do what you say that you're going to do. Like if you want to start to rebuild trust and relationship because trust has been broken. Do what you say you're going to do and be totally naked and transparent with your spouse in all things. And we've had these conversations before on Naked Proverbs. We talked about phones; we don't lock our phones. Our phones are not locked. My husband can pick up my phone at any moment, anytime, anyplace, in front of whoever, wherever and open up my phone and see who the last person I texted, who the last person I called, who left me a voicemail. And it's not because he needs to see. But if you wanted to see, he could see. And I don't have any problem with that I don't have any problem. Because I'm not hiding anything.

Rich:

We've said this and we've kind of danced around it. But reality is, trust is something that is easily broken in a marriage. But it takes time to rebuild it.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

So, even as we talk about different ways that you can rebuild that trust that's been lost or broken or damaged, understand that it's not an overnight fix. It takes time to rebuild somebody's trust. And like you said, we will talk about this in another podcast later on. But even in our own marriage, we've had to, I've had to rebuild trust with you.

Nik:

Mm hmm.

Rich:

And that required me being transparent. That required me not being offended that you wanted to know where I was going or that, you know, like you said, we don't have locks on our...I have not had a phone lock on my phone ever. Because To me, if there's anything on my phone that I don't want you to see, then it shouldn't be on my phone. If there's a phone call coming in that you can't pick up my phone and answer, then they shouldn't be calling my phone. And if you have that type of standard all the time in your marriage, if my wife or husband couldn't see this, then I don't need to be doing it. Then I promise you, you will avoid a lot of issues of conflict in your marriage, and you won't be damaging trust. But if you are hiding things, and you've got secret apps, and you've got secret places that you put things and you've got the phone lock on not because if I lose my phone, I don't want somebody to steal it and be able to have

Nik:

and that's a cop out reason anyway.

Rich:

It is. I can erase my phone right now from my laptop, I can turn off my phone right now from my laptop, I can go to our cell phone carrier and have my phone stopped immediately and track it.

Nik:

Yup. So. stop using that punk-ass reason.

Rich:

That is a reason that is nothing more than excuse to me. And I believe that at the end of the day if you want to have a true thriving marriage, you have to release all bondage. Anything that could cause you to feel like the trust can be broken. And you know what that is, you know, if you've got secret stuff on your phone, you know, if you've been surfing the internet websites that you shouldn't be on, you know, if you've been doing things that are damaging to your marriage only you know that. So, if you know you're doing those things, but you want a better marriage, you got to figure out a way to stop doing those things that are causing you not to have a good marriage.

Nik:

But you have to be real with yourself. People are...people lie to themselves every day. And there is no, I guess bigger space that people lie to themselves in, is in their marriage. People will lie to themselves. People will be doing, knowing that they're not supposed to be doing it, or succumbing to the pressures of their fraternity brothers or their sorority sisters, or their best friends or whatever, whoever knowing that you shouldn't be doing it, but you are so, I don't even really know what the word is. You don't want to fess up to your own self. You want to continue to lie to yourself and tell yourself that these things are okay when you know that they're not okay. And you know that they were hurt your spouse. And because we're talking about adults, right, we're in our 40s. We're not talking...if you're listening to your 20s you can be forgiven for a lot more than people who are in their 40s.

Rich:

Because you grown-grown in your 40s. You know what? It's like, I was talking to my boys and he was talking about yeah, you know, I don't want any children. And I'm like, Well, are you out there you know, doing things that can create children? Yeah. Are you taking the precautions necessary? Sometimes. Well fool, you going to end up with some kids because you too grown to talk about, I accidentally got some girl pregnant. And when you are in your 40s even Your 30s, you are too grown to be talking about I didn't know that would damage my marriage. I didn't know that was a bad choice. I didn't know that I should have told my wife about that. Like I was having a conversation recently, with a couple of friends, we go to breakfast on a regular basis. And you know, I was just talking to them, because one of them, you know, had been through some relationship issues. And I was just telling them the importance of transparency. And I was like, listen, I said, my phone could rang at any time, day night, my wife can answer it. And I'm not concerned. I was like, my wife can be mad. And I know that I might have messed up, but I messed up big enough to ruin my marriage. So, whatever I did, we'll get through it. I said, but I can walk around with that confidence, because I don't create an environment where there's no trust. I don't create an environment where I'm questioning, what was the lie told? Where did I tell her I was going? Like, you know what? As an example, my phone right now my wife can locate me anywhere I'm at anywhere. I turned it on when I was going out hunting or fishing or something, you know, and it was for safety. But then I was like, well, this is a great feature to leave on. Because it holds me accountable. But it also makes sure that I am safe. If something happens, my wife can find me and make sure that I'm okay. But too many spouses won't turn that feature on because they're not honest in their marriage, because they're not telling the truth, because they don't want their spouse to know, well, I make a quick run by this spot. Or I'm gonna make stop real quick over here. And they're not being 100% transparent. So, they don't want anything that will actually hold them accountable turned on on their phones.

Nik:

People have to figure out why. What is your why. Why do you feel that you can't tell your spouse, or your spouse can't know what you're doing? Who you're talking to? Where are you going? Who's your social media friends? Like, why? People need to figure out what is the why? Because you're right. If there is no trust, if there is mistrust, and there's a lack of trust in a marriage, that marriage is not thriving, that marriage is not growing, and that marriage is dead. And that marriage is ultimately, sorry, going to end in divorce, or it's just gonna be two unhappy people that are married for a whole bunch of years and they don't even like each other. Because they don't trust each other. They don't feel safe with each other. They can't be naked and transparent with each other. Why are you doing the things that you do in your 40s, 50s and I don't care if you've been married for two weeks, two years or 25 years, you are mature enough to think through your choices and your actions. You are mature enough to say you know what, that would hurt me if my wife did it to me or my husband did it to me, so I'm not going to do it to them. If I knew that my spouse was stopping off at some random person's house of the opposite sex, that would hurt me if they did that to me. So, why would I do that to them? It would hurt me if my spouse was up in somebody's DMs. So, why would I be up in somebody's DMs?

Rich:

We've talked about all the damage that it can cause. But how do you rebuild it? I mean, because damage has been done in marriages in the past.

Nik:

Yeah.

Rich:

Like I say, you know, we can share, we will share later on in another episode, some of our trust issues that we've had. But how do you rebuild it? Because to me, that's the key to this. It's not just saying, yeah, you messed up, and now you're two unhappy people. Well, how do we get out of being two unhappy people and get back to that thriving, that just passion that you know excitement, how do you get that back into a marriage after you've had damage?

Nik:

Start with you. I've said it over and over and over during this discussion, it starts with you and not the other person. Too many times in marriages, when there's an issue or problem, it's always with the other person and it's never with you. Start with you. That's number one for me.

Rich:

I think that's a good one. Because reality is, especially for you, the person that brought that damage in to your trusting area of your marriage, if you don't start with you by correcting the errors of your ways, then nothing's changing. And you're gonna end up down the road in the same situation. Second thing I would say is, understand it's going to take time for that spouse that's been hurt to regain your trust. It's not just gonna happen overnight, because you think, well, I've been telling you where I'm going for the last two months, and I didn't have a passcode for the last 30 days. So, you should trust me again. Like that's not how it works. Like I said, it's easily broken, but it takes time to rebuild. So, one thing I would say is understand that it's not your timeline, when you are the breaker of trust in your marriage, you don't get to set the timeline of when your spouse is healed, or when your spouse is ready to place trust in you again. And more importantly, your actions that you were taking shouldn't be about that. It shouldn't be about, well, I just want them to trust me again so I can go out in the streets and be an idiot again, or so I can go and misuse funds again, or I can go do whatever. It should really truly be, I want us to have a better marriage, and I know me doing these actions, damage it. So, I don't want to keep doing them. Because I want our marriage to be better.

Nik:

I would add a third tip and that is to hold each other accountable. And I say that with caution, and I'm saying it slowly for a reason because that could be something that could explode if it's not done in the right way. For instance, if you do not like that your spouse ear hustles at public gatherings, and you want to have a conversation about that, because it makes you feel like, he doesn't trust you. Every time you hear hustle at a gathering, it makes me feel like you don't trust me. Approaching that conversation has to be very delicate, right? Because nobody likes to be told what to do. And people definitely don't like to be told what they're doing is wrong. So, hold each other accountable. But do it cautiously. Do it with love and do it in a way that's not making the person feel like they're being attacked.

Rich:

And then lastly, I would say if you just really don't feel like you can build that trust with these few tips we've given, seek counseling, seek professional help. There are marriage counselors out there that can help you understand how to rebuild the trust in your marriage. Because if you really want it to work, you have to be willing to work for it. You have to be willing to fight for it. Don't just give up because you're going through a bad patch, or because the trust is not where you would like it to be. Instead, get out there and fight for it. Like you gotta want your marriage to be a success as much as you want anything else in your life to be a success.

Nik:

And I have to say this before we close out this episode, because Black folks, we are good for going to our pastors for counseling. Our pastors, most times are not, like my husband and I, I say at the beginning of every episode, we are not trained, licensed or professional therapists or counselors. Neither are your pastors most of the time. That therapy and that counseling needs to come from people who are trained, licensed and professionals. And that's not saying that you can't go to your pastor or for spiritual guidance and growth, as it pertains to trust and marriage and relationships. But when you're talking about therapy and counseling, please seek those that are trained, licensed and professionals and they usually are not your pastors or your first ladies. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Naked Proverbs. We want you to truly have a happy marriage. We want you to trust each other in your marriages. We want you to continue to thrive in your marriages and indulge in your spouses on a regular basis. Don't forget to follow the Naked Proverbs on whatever platform you are listening on. And we will talk to y'all in the new year.

Rich:

Peace.

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